Chimera Kennels

A very basic question which immediately came to mind after getting a basic understanding of your program:

Why APBT instead of American Bulldog (AB)? 

Absolutely no knock to the APBT in any way, but there are excellent working AB specimens out there who could add a tremendous amount of tenacity to the mix.

BTW, I have thoroughly enjoyed going through your site and have spent too much time checking out all of the pictures.  I also commend you on the transparency of your decisions and research in truly understanding your goal.....and sticking to it!!

Definitely looks good on you!

I wouldn't use an AB in my bandog program.  I think there are some good AB's.  I just wouldn't want all the messed up face and muzzle genes that usually come with an AB. The APBT is just a better dog in almost everyway. The only thing that I see an AB bringing to the table that a APBT might not, is size and maybe better human suspicion.  Both of those traits are found in greater abundance in a good mastiff.  An AB would defenitly not bring more tenacity to a program then the APBT. IMO it is the other way around.  

There are some good AB's out there, but a good APBT can do everything an AB can do and then some. There are many lines of APBT, so it is important to choose the right line, but when you do that you get more from the APBT in drives, athletic ability, stamina, and health from the APBT than you will from the AB. People typically use AB to get size quick, but I would rather stick to the mastiffs for that.

Thanks for the responses.

I must admit that I have next to no experience with APBT so I am just going on second hand experience.  I do have a bit of experience working AB and I have been impressed with what I saw.

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond.

Does anyone have any experience with the "Colorado Bulldog"? It's supposed to be a cross between the AB & APBT. It's also the name of a drink, but I was just wondering if anyone here works with them.

I had a nice AB x APBT growing up that we rescued from a dog fighter. She was never worked, but she was bred to a 100+ pound boxer, and produced some very nice dogs. I only wish I had known then what I know now, and crossed her to a mastiff instead.

""I must admit that I have next to no experience with APBT so I am just going on second hand experience. I do have a bit of experience working AB and I have been impressed with what I saw.""

Bigshrimp, this is how wide open and how  diverse pit bulls lines are:

This one is off pure game lines, weighs 25 pounds, smaller than standard but the real deal not a toy, just to show the difference in lines

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=285443

This one is off heavy weight pull lines registered pure APBT, weighs 135 pounds, his sire is a true specimen about 120 pounds intense weight pull and catch dog, dam is out of suspect mixed lines but is registered pure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XQU7ampcaM

Like Lee said its all about finding the right lines...

Thanks for the links Mike.

I can even see the difference from Lee's site between Luci and Capt Skip.....could be just the pictures but they look like very differently put together dogs.

Luci was a Whopper lines APBT and was produced by Bob Bonacorsi. Unfortunately, Bob is no longer in the dogs. IMO, he bred the best Whopper line dogs ever produced. I think the quality of the Whopper lines has fallen significantly in the last 5 to 10 years.

Captain Skip was a pure Sorrells bred dog on top and bottom for many generations.

Hey can any one point me to some kennels that produce gamebred APBT.I been looking online and all i see is big "pit bulls" that seem to have no drive at all.

Here is one off of the top of my head.

http://tom-garner-kennels.com/

I tnink  bryants rednose pitbulls web site is very good and has some game pits.

There are many that I could recommend that breed quality game bred dogs, but before I do, let me know what traits you are looking for specifically. Once you do that, I will likely be able to recommend a breeder that can give you exactly what you are looking for.

Do you want size or does size not matter?

Do you just want gameness...or do you want mouth, power, stamina, nerve, etc?

Try to be a bit more specific, as the APBT has a huge array of blood lines.

I think I can help ,if Lee can't. Something like this ect...

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=106620

I guess at this point size wouldn't really matter, i just want an all athletic dog full of gameness.

I don't own either of these dogs anymore, nor none of their offspring, but I am sure something like this would work very well for you. If you want something like this, send me your contact information and I will forward it to someone that can send you something bred like this. 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=267050

Go yellow john (Mayday, Barracuda,Machobuck). There are a ton of good game bred pits out there, my favorites are the RB Jocko dogs (yellow john).  Peds are important but it doesn't garuntee that you wont get a cur.  Every APBT line is going to have strengths and weaknesses. It's not hard to find out what they are if you do a little research.  I don't think you will have hard time finding a healthy athletic APBT. The gameness thing you can never even know unless you test it for gameness. However, dogs with a tested ped are going to have a lot better chance of throwing gameness.  Also I'm sure you know this, but aggression and drive do not equal gameness.  I hear alot from people about how they have a game dog, when what they are really saying is "I think that dog is game because it is hot and has drive." The two are not the same. That being said a good pit is going to have drive, aggression, athletic ability, and most importantly gameness.  There are lots of people that test thier stock, so be patient and spend some time talking with lots of breeders. I think I know who Lee is going to recommend to you and I think that he's right on with his recomendation. 

Indeed, you know.

 Thanks for the great information everyone.

Lee, it seems as if you are very familiar with many lines of APBT.  Having researching many (and owning) several myself at one time, I am interested in hearing why you chose the Sorrells line as your line to create your Bandogs.  I am not questioning it--it is a very solid line to say the least.  Just wanted to know why Sorrels as opposed to Eli- Chinaman, Red Boy, Wallace, Hemphill, etc......