Chimera Kennels

I have an eight month old Swinford named Axshun out of Damon and Lucile. I've recently started his training for PP, and I'm haveing a hard time getting him to bark when he's on the tie out. Any sugesstions? We're trying to get him to bark before we engage him, he will growl and just look. We even had him tied up next to other dogs that would bark but he still won't. But other than that he's doing really well with his OB and his prey drive is off the charts, haven't really got into anything else just trying to lay down the foundations.

What is the helper doing when trying to make him bark?

Why do you say his prey is very high?  What is the handler or helper doing to see this prey?

Get him barking for food first. It's not the same command as the alert command, but teaching him to bark first for something else will help him to realize it's ok for him to bark for a reward. Then you use a flirt pole to build frustration, targeting skills, bite,and alert command(pas auf, guard, alert etc.).  Always use a back tie,or you won't frustrate the dog.  Be very, very, very patient, and never show frustration to your dog. I say that because that is what I had to realize before I started getting performance out of my banddogs. If the dog is a pup do a ton of OB and confidence building and that will help with every part of PP training.  Also some people correct thier dog and tell them to be quiet and all that when they are pups. If you've done that before you taught the dog to bark, you will have to get past that. I'm speaking from experience. All that being said find a reputable PP trainer. Maybe you are smarter then me with dogs, but when I finally found a legitamte PP trainer I realized how little I knew about PP training. You won't have a good dog if you use the internet to figure out how to train a PP dog. If the prey is there you shouldn't have a problem getting him to bark soon. Frustrate and tease him with a flirt pole with something really juicy (a cool easy to bite toy) on the end and when he makes a noise, even a whimpy noise at first, let him win the flirt pole.

Okay, people with more experience then me, where did I go wrong?

I myself aggree with most of what Ben wrote except the food thing. You could do that, but I myself would find it unnecessary.

Instead, let's remind ourselves what the bark actually is. It is a flushing behavior, typically associated with prey, but it can also be associated with fight if there is some distance. It is also an expression of frustration. This frustration leads to a bark in order to get the item to move so the dog can get it.. Think of coon dogs barking at a coon in the tree. They can't get it, so they bark. Or a rabbit dog barks at a rabbit in the bush to get the rabbit to jump out. So, to get a dog to bark, you may have to use some type of frustration. Deny the dog what it wants...all while making him want it more and more...until he gets so frustrated that he can't help himself and has to bark. To do this, you can work another dog in front of him while he himself is on a tie out. Get the "helping dog" pumped...excited, barking, biting, shaking...whatever helps "LOAD" your dog. When he is loaded, he will bark. You might need distance too...as when the item is close many barking dogs become silient as they may switch from barking mode to biting mode. Praise and reward the small quiet barks and they will become more pronounced.

Thanks for the advice guys. Just got back from training and he barked today I took the advice and brought my flirtpole along with me. At first we were trying to use a burlap sack and it didn't work but when he couldn't get to the flirt pole he started barking . I think the problem was that I would always stop him from barking when ever he would, looking back probably shoudn't have done that but I'm learning as I go, so sorry in advance for any dumb questions I might ask along the way. The trainer I go to name is Kevin Lanoute he's a german shepard guy he's trying to make the world team.At first he wasn't even taking my dog serious until he seen the potential now he takes a special intrest in Axshun it's  kinda cool.

Glad to hear he did better. Keep us posted. I hope he works well.

If you are working with someone of that calibre then they should not have a problem getting a bark out of the dog.....some dogs just take a bit more patience

I was surprised to read the dog was growling....when working prey/frustration and trying to get the bark, the dog shouldn't be growling.  Was this his first time on the field?  Did he have a bit of time to look around and get familiar with his surroundings before the work started?  Sometimes the "newness" of the game and field can make them a bit uneasy, but a good helper should turn the dog's attention elsewhere very fast

Good luck with your dog, and just remember that a trial driven trainer has very specific goals of trial success.  SO, if your goals are PP then make sure he's very aware of this and moves the training in a civil direction....not competition direction.

No it wasn't his first time on the field but was his first time in a harness. I knew the trainer would get him to bark , but I was just wondering if there was anything I could do on my own time to get him to do it faster considering I'm paying per session. I told kevin that I'm interested only in PP he knows that, as far as if he's keeping a tight line with that or taking the long way around I don't know, but it's whatever it's fun for me and the dog and as long as I could see some results I'm good.

I had this problem the first time we worked my male dog, a little tap on his rear end and me telling him to get it fixed that prob, he now always barks, it really was that simple