Chimera Kennels

Titled or not, these dogs were totally unprepared for this type of challenge. The trainer/decoy in these videos is guilty of mal-practice. Foolishness is in no short supply, even on the other side of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TTkqlMpVnA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7flVMBd53U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WemLczV2aQM

That just made me physically ill

......but makes you wonder who the morons are that keep bringing their dogs to this guy???

This is classical animal abuse. Why chasing the dog after it refuses to bite?????? These people will call themselves professionals!!!!

Wow, I'm not sure you can do that badly on ignorance alone, it looks like he has some idea what he should do and is trying his best to wreck these dogs. Maybe he was bitten by a dog as an now he thinks it's payback time.

David Ishee at 03:41AM on Mar 16, 2010

Wow, I'm not sure you can do that badly on ignorance alone, it looks like he has some idea what he should do and is trying his best to wreck these dogs. Maybe he was bitten by a dog as an now he thinks it's payback time.

A good example how some guys are mentally sick! Feel really sorry for the dogs, and alos for the poor people they will eventually bite some day out of fear.

I am at a loss of words, well none I would use here.

In a discussion about the above videos from another forum, here is a post I made about "working smarter." Although the context/dialog isn't here, I think some of the members here may appreciate my comment there. Here is my reply on "egos" and "dog training."

______________________

A trainer ALWAYS has a choice to do what is right. If a handler is so stupid to insist on doing a test with an unprepared dog, then I would refuse to work with them as I couldn't trust their judgement to properly use the dog. Not everyone needs a dog, and certainly not everyone needs a PP dog. Let ignorance cull themselves instead of others. As a supporter in the 2nd ammendment, I don't believe everyone has a right to a firearm. Criminals and insane doesn't qualify. Well...on my field, ignorance doesn't qualify either. I have to trust a client's judgement or I won't work with them. Last thing I need is to be associated with foolish K9 handlers.

Again, nothing is wrong with seperating the real dogs from the non-real dogs...but all that is needed to do that is a distinguishable line...not a 587 yards. No need in kicking a dog for failing to perform when it is already accepted defeat. If a trainer believes it is necessary fr the owner to recieve a lesson, then let the trainer whip the owner while asking the owner where his "PP dog" is now? Take it out on the owner that CHOSE to do the test, not the dog. This is IF that is the case, which I have some doubts about...but I wasn't there, so I don't know. Instead, if I myself found it necessary, I MIGHT make the dog back off to prove a point, but I would NOT run it down a field. I do know I have seen plenty of ignorant macho trainers that like to talk big until they get a real dog in front of them. Then they tend to shut up pretty quick.

I can think of one handler that came to us for training that saw a video of one of my dogs on my website and he said, "I want my dog to do that." This guy has his own "bandog" program and drove here to show his friends how awesome his dogs were...which is fine by me. I would like to see some more good bandogs, and if one looks at our website you will see we help several other programs develop and demo their dogs, but this guy just wasn't going to grow. He already knew it all. After evaluating his dog, I respectfully and politely informed him his "dog showed potential but he wasn't ready to perform his desired scenerio but with more training he could be." He insisted, "I know what my dog will do." I then took it upon myself to respectfully explain why I knew the dog wasn't ready for it yet, but still the owner insisted. He had several blind friends with him and I believe he was here to "show me" something. So, at that point...I said, "Here are your options. We can do things my way and make the video at a later date, or we can do things your way and should your dog fail I insist that you stay here long enough for me to build the dog back up some." He agreed. This way, at least the dog wouldn't lose and his friends would learn some "truth" WITHOUT having to put the dog's failure on the table. The owner's pride may have been on the table, but not at the expense of the dog. So, we set up the scenerio and the dog failed...but I never ran him off. Once the dog refused to engage the threat, I IMMEDIATELY stopped. I didn't have to say, "I told you." The owner could see it himself. His friends could see it too, and in fact one of his friends then told the owner that I made sense and he should have listened. I then interrupted and said, "It's ok. He just wasn't ready for that yet, he just needs training. Can we now do this the right way." I remained polite the entire time. He then agreed to let me do things the way they needed to be done. The dog got a bite, and was allowed to leave. HOWEVER, a win that is "charitable" isn't a real win and a dog knows that he already lost. The trick to being a good trainer is being a good actor. You have to make the dog think it is for real while also only working within the limits the dog is capable of. IMO, the damage from such tests can last a long time for some dogs...and it just isn't worth doing. That owner has not been back out since, but he did at least change his demenor and started working within the dog's abilities instead of against the dogs by asking them to do too much to soon...which is of couse was fine by me. Not all dogs are equal. Some are great "right out of the box" so to speak, but these types of dogs are not everywhere. Some develop rapidly. Some develop slow, and some never do much of anything. The main problem here though wasn't the dog, it was the man asking for too much too soon because of his ego. He wanted to be the "chief" and he didn't like working with someone that knew more about his dog than he did...he left feeling like crap, but he and his friends now knew that "macho" training isn't what good training is about. The goal was to educate the man and his friends without destroying the dog. I was NEVER upset with the dog. He is just a dog so, I never took it out on the dog. In fact, once the dog failed the initial task, after a quick discussion with the owner so he could acknowledge what occurred, I then proceeded by changing the scenerio ASAP to put the dog into a task that he could handle and built the dog back up...and the dog still left much better than when he came out...although not as good IMO as he would have been if all the training would have done right from the get go. I didn't gain anything from it, and I am not so sure that the owner of the dog did either...but the dog did gain from it and so did the owner's friends. They all learned something without me having taking it out on the dog.

Now, I don't even bother doing this type of stuff anymore. If they don't trust me, they can take a hike. I insist on it going my way, or they can go elsewhere. I have learned I don't want to associate with the errogant or egotystical BLIND know it alls. I don't run a school for the ignorant or erogant. What we have here is a PP dog breeding and training program.

Once the dog runs, there is no need to beat a dog for having a foolish ignorant owner. IMHO, if a trainer is willing to go through all this just to prove he is right, then he is just as unethical as the owner is ignorant. No one wins. All that is displayed is erogance and egos...and everyone loses. The owner leaves upset, since the trainer didn't have to go that far. The trainer loses a client. And, the dog loses without ever asking to be involved.

When things like this are done, some guidelines should be established...such as, whenever either loses, the battle is over. If the dog loses, either let the dog accept defeat without continuing to beat it. And, should the man/decoy lose, get the dog off him without sending him to the ER. Anyway, that's my opinion.

Work smarter.

That said, I certainly don't "know it all." When we have a decoy seminar, or when I go to another trainer...they are the boss and I am the student. Should they do something I don't like, that's ok...for I am there to I keep my opinion to myself and remember what I do like...so I learn. Should they have no clue as to what they are doing...it is their turf and I will just leave. I say, "their turf" because the only people that I have come here to give seminars are people that have already shown me enough or that have enough qualificiations that I know I can trust their judgement.