Chimera Kennels

Hi all,

First of thank you Chimera kennels for all the work you are doing, not only with the dogs but bringing so many like meinded people together. Its nice to get a forum that is focused on purpose rather than sport.

I wanted to get everyone’s thoughts and idea's on my problem.......

I live in Scotland and although I love my country to bits we have had our hands tied behind our backs when it comes to freedom of ownership and dogs. Our stupid 'Dangerous dog act' states.....

It is illegal to own:

(a) Pit Bull Terrier and Pit Bull Terrier types

(b) Japanese Tosa

(c) Dogo Angentino

(d) Fila Braziliero

If you own any one of these four breeds or types of dog it will be seized by a Police Officer or the Council's dog warden. If this is found to be the case, the court will likely order the dog to be destroyed and sentence the owner to six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding, £2,000.

Other breeds also behaving dangerously

The Act applies to other breeds also. It is an offence to allow any dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place, or a private place where it is not permitted to be, even if it does not cause an injury. The penalty if a dog does not cause injury is up to six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding, £2,000. If a dog does cause injury and the case is proven in court, the dog will be destroyed, with maximum penalties for the owner of two years in prison and/or an unlimited fine.

So to sum up my problem, if I lived in the states I would own a Swinford or another reputable Bandog. Here in the UK I am very limited to the 'type' of dog I can own without fear of it being taken and destroyed. From my research so far it appears that most high quality bandog's have a APBT in them and that then becomes a problem for me.

The big question and sorry for making this so long winded, what type/breed of dog would you have if you were in my shoes??? Given that I am looking for a protection dog that looks after my family and home while still fitting in as a pet. We are very active and have small children. Please ask for more details if needs be to come up with idea's.

I already own a Rottweiler and Jack russell terrier.

Thanks in advance for your input.

Alex

davesdad at May 7, 2010 at 7:14 AM

Hi all,

 

 

First of thank you Chimera kennels for all the work you are doing, not only with the dogs but bringing so many like meinded people together. Its nice to get a forum that is focused on purpose rather than sport.

 

I wanted to get everyone’s thoughts and idea's on my problem.......

 

 

I live in Scotland and although I love my country to bits we have had our hands tied behind our backs when it comes to freedom of ownership and dogs. Our stupid 'Dangerous dog act' states.....

 

 

It is illegal to own:

(a) Pit Bull Terrier and Pit Bull Terrier types

(b) Japanese Tosa

(c) Dogo Angentino

(d) Fila Braziliero

 

 

If you own any one of these four breeds or types of dog it will be seized by a Police Officer or the Council's dog warden. If this is found to be the case, the court will likely order the dog to be destroyed and sentence the owner to six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding, £2,000.

 

 

Other breeds also behaving dangerously

 

 

The Act applies to other breeds also. It is an offence to allow any dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place, or a private place where it is not permitted to be, even if it does not cause an injury. The penalty if a dog does not cause injury is up to six months in prison and/or a fine not exceeding, £2,000. If a dog does cause injury and the case is proven in court, the dog will be destroyed, with maximum penalties for the owner of two years in prison and/or an unlimited fine.

 

So to sum up my problem, if I lived in the states I would own a Swinford or another reputable Bandog. Here in the UK I am very limited to the 'type' of dog I can own without fear of it being taken and destroyed. From my research so far it appears that most high quality bandog's have a APBT in them and that then becomes a problem for me.

 

The big question and sorry for making this so long winded, what type/breed of dog would you have if you were in my shoes??? Given that I am looking for a protection dog that looks after my family and home while still fitting in as a pet. We are very active and have small children. Please ask for more details if needs be to come up with idea's.

 

I already own a Rottweiler and Jack russell terrier.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

Alex

Sorry to hear about all the restrictions! If in your shoes, I would look into the following breeds:

* Beauceron

* Ca de Bou

* Cao de Fila

* Belgium Shepard

* Giant Schnauzer

* Black Russian Terrier

You could also look into the Akita inu, English mastiff, Neapolitan Mastiff, Boerboel, or Dogue de bordeaux.  I would be very careful, since it would take one ignorant neighbor or cop to mistake something for a pit and throw you in jail. I would stay away from anything that's "bulldogy" because the law says "pitbull types" that could be anything in the bulldog family. The safest thing would probably be to find a solid, working quality English Mastiff. It'll be hard for the UK to outlaw them for the sake of history if nothing else.

I really hope no one invades the UK, because with the general population having no guns or protective dogs, the average citizen really has no way to protect their homes or families. I really hope you can find a way to stay safe. Meanwhile we all need to stay vigilant that those kinds of limitations aren't imposed on us Americans. People are trying right now to take our guns and dogs too, and they will if we just sit back and let them.

Hey guys thanks for your replies.

Here is an interesting statistic from the government no less....... since this ban was brought into force 11 years ago dog fighting with pit bull terriers has risen 300%. Now I’m no rocket scientist but even I can do the math and know that the ban is not working. Its a comfort blanket for the ignorant who still believe that the police will always be there to protect them and bad things never happen to good people.

I believe that not only has a man the right to protect his family and home but it is his responsibility, I'm not a vigilantly but a realist. My wife and child was threatened and harassed on our street and it took the police 4 days to come and investigate, I dread to think how long it would take if the situation turned physical.

Unfortunately when we bought Dave our Rottweiler we bought him as a family pet, we spent a year looking for what we thought was the right temperament. He barks when he hears noises and looks the part to those that do not know him but in reality he is very submissive and has little to no fight drive. This has been ideal around the children but when we first started to look for a dog the common misconception that we kept on being told was that you can not have a good protection dog that would also be a stable family pet. I am now learning that this is not the case.

Anywyas, keep the idea's and thoughts coming, thanks for all your help.

Alex

Just to put in my two cents you may want to learn more about the South Russian Ovcharka.  

I agree wholeheartedly that the first responsibility of every able man is to provide for and protect his family to the best of his ability. No one, not even his government, has the right to tell him he can't provide safety for his loved ones.

When I was living in Jackson, two men in masks tried to break in with a "sawed-off" shotgun. They ran when they saw me going for my modified Remington 870. If I'd had no guns I don't like to think what would have happened. If I'd not been home I really don't like to think what would have happened. That's why I'm a big believer in guns, alarms, and dogs.

My wife called the police immediately, and we lived just a few blocks from precinct 4. It still took the police 10 minutes to get there even though the officer who responded was only three houses down talking to my neighbor, who had just been broken into by the same two guys. They didn't have any way to defend themselves and wound up becoming victims. The officer told me that with them having ski masks on they would probably never be caught, and the best chance to stop them was for a homeowner to kill them in the attempt. Even the best response time is much slower than the time it takes a criminal to kill a family and run for it.

Don't get me wrong, I have the highest respect for our police officers, but their function isn't to be bodyguards.  If it was, half of the population would have to be police officers to provide for the other half.

Hi davesdad i have got the same problem as i am in the UK as well and if i could i would with out a doubt have a dog from Chimera kennels for my next family and home protector but the way things are here i don't think that we will be aloud working type bull or mastiff breeds here soon so i am keeping my options open and thinking of getting a Belgium Shepperd for my next dog as i have got a few friends with this breed and i am impressed with the ones that i have been around and seen work plus they are not to big but that only is if they do ban more types of bull/mastiff breeds. We have had a spate of brake ins on my road the last few weeks if they come in to my home i am just going to let my boy have a right good chew on them before i call him off and if i get done for having a out of control dog then so be it, if they did get past him i have not got a gun but i have all was had a machete at the back of my head in bed, i have not worked hard all of my life so far to let some little smack have my stuff and put the shits up my women. It is wrong that we can not have the right tolls to defend are selves and are homes in the UK. The law is on the crocks side here they just get a smack on the wrist. I would proffer a dog from the holding breeds for my next one as i have all ways had them and trust the well bred ones.

relic at June 9, 2010 at 11:22 AM

Hi davesdad i have got the same problem as i am in the UK as well and if i could i would with out a doubt have a dog from Chimera kennels for my next family and home protector but the way things are here i don't think that we will be aloud working type bull or mastiff breeds here soon so i am keeping my options open and thinking of getting a Belgium Shepperd for my next dog as i have got a few friends with this breed and i am impressed with the ones that i have been around and seen work plus they are not to big but that only is if they do ban more types of bull/mastiff breeds. We have had a spate of brake ins on my road the last few weeks if they come in to my home i am just going to let my boy have a right good chew on them before i call him off and if i get done for having a out of control dog then so be it, if they did get past him i have not got a gun but i have all was had a machete at the back of my head in bed, i have not worked hard all of my life so far to let some little smack have my stuff and put the shits up my women. It is wrong that we can not have the right tolls to defend are selves and are homes in the UK. The law is on the crocks side here they just get a smack on the wrist. I would proffer a dog from the holding breeds for my next one as i have all ways had them and trust the well bred ones.

Hey relic, have you looked into the Beauceron? Really a great dog, with good size (males around 90lbs, 25 inches at the shoulder), great all around dog that has been used for years as a police dog, mountain dog, family protector, etc, and they look great!

yes i have but only a few at crufts and never working, i did like the look of them but i think that they was from show stock as we have not got many in the UK from wot i have been told. I know that they are a very old breed steeped in history.

like with any other breeds, you would need to find a really good breeder that has been breeding for 10 + years, and that can show results. being from France, i have seen many impressive Beauceron, with great body structure, and great natural protective instinct. i prefer the bully type dogs myself too, but if i couldn't get a bully type, it'll most likely be a Beauceron.

That's a hard spot to be in, but it sounds like you've stacked the odds in your favor as best you can. I have to agree a good catch dog would make a big difference in a machete fight.

Nico at June 9, 2010 at 1:13 PM

like with any other breeds, you would need to find a really good breeder that has been breeding for 10 + years, and that can show results. being from France, i have seen many impressive Beauceron, with great body structure, and great natural protective instinct. i prefer the bully type dogs myself too, but if i couldn't get a bully type, it'll most likely be a Beauceron.

I will have a bit more of a look in to this breed but i think that it is quite new to are shores so i don't think there is any  established lines from breeders here? and fair play to for being patriotic and thinking of your home country's breed. If the bull mastiffs was still a good dog i would have one like a shot a brindle around the 90lds just like the famous dog called terror from UK years ago

David Ishee at June 9, 2010 at 1:19 PM

That's a hard spot to be in, but it sounds like you've stacked the odds in your favor as best you can. I have to agree a good catch dog would make a big difference in a machete fight.

i would feel a lot better with a gun under my pillow HE HE, but their is a good bit in Michael Harlow book when he say that you can all ways call a dog back but not a bullet.

Just as an add on, I would also possilbly look into a true "working" boxer from hardcore working lines.  They are not too big, but still have that "bull blood" in them that we all love.  I have seen a few of them in action, and they were impressive.  In my opinion, they can be a little difficult to find, and some of the best ones I think cost a fair amount, but in most places with restrictions regarding pit bulls or pit bull types "boxer dogs" seem to fall through the cracks.  I know that Germany of course has some great working stock, but many great working breeders can now be found in the U.S. as well.  I am not sure how available a working boxer would be in the UK, but it may be worth a shot.  Additionally, I am truly sorry to hear of all of the restrictions, it is truly a shame.....

I don't know about using a boxer. Even if you did find one with the drive and confidence to work, the exaggerated stop, short muzzle and underbite all work against the dog in bitework. There's a reason no predator in nature has a muzzle like that.

David Ishee at June 10, 2010 at 4:34 PM

I don't know about using a boxer. Even if you did find one with the drive and confidence to work, the exaggerated stop, short muzzle and underbite all work against the dog in bitework. There's a reason no predator in nature has a muzzle like that.

Your best choice may be to relocate from your current location.

I'm sick of bsl its bad here to! Ontario is the only city for 20 mi that I can have APBTS or better yet My bulldogs but APBTs for how long?

Hey Relic, Where abouts are you in the UK?

I'm in Fife Scotland, you have to put locking wheel nuts on plastic wheel covers in some of the estates around here. I feel you with the machete behind you head,  would never carry but someone comes in the house then needs must.  I like the look and build of Dogue de Bordeaux but have no idea what they are like working? Anyone have an insight?

A up davesdad i am in Birmingham in between the city and the NEC , if its on show it will go around here as well mate, a hell of a lot of folk out on the mooch for there drug money. on the DDBs i have never seen one work see one or two good looking ones but unless you have a time machine i would look else were as they ant a patch on the dogs from the past .