Chimera Kennels

I forget the names of the dogs u showed pics of a while back, but i remeber you produced some 75% pitbull 25% EM dogs in the past, anways i was wondering how these dogs turned out? i remeber them being pretty dogs with a nice build, and id have to assume there was a degree of fightdrive to them being 75 pitbull that you do not see outta of the regualr dogs would you agree? i was also wondering if dogs like this have as much defense only being 25% EM ??? do the dogs you produce that come out more masstiff in phenotype usally have more of a masstiff temp? is there any corrliation? i know you dont like to get into percentages of dogs but i was very currious.... 

Mastiffs on average do tend to display more defense to human behavior than do APBT, but there are some lines of APBT that also display defense to humans. That said, of the 75% dogs I produced I would NOT say they displayed more fight drive than do my American Sentinel dogs, but that is because if an American Sentinel does not have fight drives for protection work, I am not happy with the dog and remove it from the breeding program. The ones that remain in the breeding program should display good intensity...with a balance of both prey drive and defense drive...but ultimately they should display fight drive when called to do protection work. Not all do. Any breeder that says they have 100% great dogs is a 100% liar...or very inexperienced and doesn't know how to distinguish a good dog from a not so good dog (and I have met many such people).

Not all aggression is equal. Of course, you know this. I only mention it because some people think that aggression = confidence or protective instinct and that just isn't true. It could mean insecurity. Sorry though...I am getting a little off topic.

Back to the topic at hand, I would say while the 75%ers didn't display more fight, they may display less defense to HUMANS and also more prey to NON-HUMAN items.

Type isn't always an indicator of temperament...but then again, I work to select for efficient types/structure by using performance measures, so when I encounter inefficiency it quickly gets removed from the program. That said, the work is never done, not even with an established breed. Progress requires hard work, knowledge, experience, finances, equipment, testing, commitment, and OBJECTIVITY.

Sorry for rambling.

chimerakennels at August 23, 2011 at 3:06 PM

Mastiffs on average do tend to display more defense to human behavior than do APBT, but there are some lines of APBT that also display defense to humans. That said, of the 75% dogs I produced I would NOT say they displayed more fight drive than do my Swinford dogs, but that is because if a Swinford does not have fight drives for protection work, I am not happy with the dog and remove it from the breeding program. The ones that remain in the breeding program should display good intensity...with a balance of both prey drive and defense drive...but ultimately they should display fight drive when called to do protection work. Not all do. Any breeder that says they have 100% great dogs is a 100% liar...or very inexperienced and doesn't know how to distinguish a good dog from a not so good dog (and I have met many such people).

Not all aggression is equal. Of course, you know this. I only mention it because some people think that aggression = confidence or protective instinct and that just isn't true. It could mean insecurity. Sorry though...I am getting a little off topic.

Back to the topic at hand, I would say while the 75%ers didn't display more fight, they may display less defense to HUMANS and also more prey to NON-HUMAN items.

Type isn't always an indicator of temperament...but then again, I work to select for efficient types/structure by using performance measures, so when I encounter inefficiency it quickly gets removed from the program. That said, the work is never done, not even with an established breed. Progress requires hard work, knowledge, experience, finances, equipment, testing, commitment, and OBJECTIVITY.

Sorry for rambling.

good post, i dont mind the rambling!!! 

The ones that are 75% APBT are generally tighter in type, smaller in type, and more APBT like in temperament, but not always. In some cases one could have a 75% dog that is still mastiff like. This is why you have to select for traits and not percentages. We select for TRAITS which are controlled by GENES...and while the ENTIRE GENOME may be a given percentage, that does NOT MEAN any specific trait will fall in accordance to a given percentage. Genes may fall independent of one another (meaning one trait may have nothing to do with another), while other genes may be linked (when one gene does influence the inheritance of another gene). This is why understanding both independent assortment and the gene segregation is important...as well as other aspects of inheritance and gene expression. There there is a science to breeding good dogs, again...a program will only be as good as the objectivity and performance measures used by a given breeder.

chimerakennels at August 24, 2011 at 12:44 PM

The ones that are 75% APBT are generally tighter in type, smaller in type, and more APBT like in temperament, but not always. In some cases one could have a 75% dog that is still mastiff like. This is why you have to select for traits and not percentages. We select for TRAITS which are controlled by GENES...and while the ENTIRE GENOME may be a given percentage, that does NOT MEAN any specific trait will fall in accordance to a given percentage. Genes may fall independent of one another (meaning one trait may have nothing to do with another), while other genes may be linked (when one gene does influence the inheritance of another gene). This is why understanding both independent assortment and the gene segregation is important...as well as other aspects of inheritance and gene expression. There there is a science to breeding good dogs, again...a program will only be as good as the objectivity and performance measures used by a given breeder.

You know where i could find out what independent assortment and gene segregation is???? just for my own interest? anyways informative post again, What traits would u say you select for in the American Sentinel as far as the mastiff traits are concerned? and what traits of the apbt do u select for? Lee i have asked u alot of questions in the past both public and private, and i am sure my questions sometimes sound repeative sorry for that....I know you breed generation American Sentinels now, but when u did the crosses of masstiff, apbt is what i am asking about....

For now... try this link. When I have more time, I will be sure to include those two concepts if they are not already in here. I don't have time now...

http://www.chimerakennels.com/caninegenetics.htm

nice thx!

Would you say that rebel got the pitbull size and mastiff temperment Lee or just a good mix of both parents?

I would say he is a pretty even mix. He has more drive than your typical mastiff...but then again the only mastiff he has in his is Eclipse down from Preacher...and Eclipse was driven.