Chimera Kennels

I actually prefer the sizes of dogs such as the great Dane but I also love the energy levels, the tenacity, and muscularity of the APBT. Are there American Sentinels or Bandogs that are slightly on the larger scale but are effective for PP and bear more of the resembalnce to an APBT? I ask because I am looking for a American Sentinel/Bandog that will be suitable for PP but I can also go for a run with and bares the traits that I mentioned above. 

This question doesn't make clear sense. "Are there American Sentinels or Bandogs that are slightly on the larger scale but are effective for PP and bear more of the resembalnce to an APBT?"

If you will clarify what you are asking, just in case I misunderstood, but...

Not many bandogs will do well at endurance sports and that is kind of a pet pieve of mine and something that seperates the American Sentinel program from many of the other "bandog" type programs...balance is important to performance. I don't like parasites. If I go for a hike or trail ride some miles in the bush with a dog, I don't want to be concerned about how I am  going to get the dog back home. Personally I think the American Sentinel and also dogs from Midgard Mastiffs would be some of the best in the country in a "dual purpose" companion guardian and athlete...being aware of power, agility, and stamina.

I meant to say are there heavier bandogs maybe between 110-150 lbs (just throwing a number out there) , But even with that size can still maintain an athletic look but can also be athletic. I've also fell in love with the aesthetics of the APBT that's why I asked if you know of larger bandogs the closely resemble one. 

The "dual purpose" is whats so attractive to me about these dogs. I would like to have a dog as a work out partner but who is also an effective and discerning protector for my family.

Your requests are reasonable...but focussing on the companion guardian aspects and the athletic aspects, some look more like APBTs than others. (And that depends on what you consider to be an "APBT look."

I understand that. Do you produce dogs that carry those traits? 

Yes and no. If you were to drop down to an HONEST 100# or so, then yes. While I have produced some 110# dogs like this, my bigger dogs are generally less APBT like. Do you think Linebaugh looks like an APBT? He is a 112#. He is similar to an APBT in the eyes of some people. I have had a lot of people say "Look at that giant APBT," but to an experienced eye he is OBVIOUSLY not an APBT. Meanwhile, we have produced dogs like Jackson and Boss that are very APBT like, dogs like them are typically closer to 90-100#. Before I continue, very few "giant" APBT actually weigh what websites claim...and many of people with "100" APBT have been here to see our dogs and their dogs were not near as big as their exaggerations...because fat does NOT count IMO. A 100# lean dog is a large dog. Just to get an idea...realize Linebaugh is only 112. Tate is 95#.

Linebaugh...

Tate

Boss

Jackson

Yeah I know what you mean I've never been interested in what backyard breeders have to say about their enormous APBT who are either not the size they claim or packed on with fat. But from the pictures you've shown these are pretty beautiful specimens. I especially love the ones of boss and jackson. 

4LegEnthusiast at September 26, 2011 at 8:22 PM

I actually prefer the sizes of dogs such as the great Dane but I also love the energy levels, the tenacity, and muscularity of the APBT. Are there Swinfords or Bandogs that are slightly on the larger scale but are effective for PP and bear more of the resembalnce to an APBT? I ask because I am looking for a Swinford/Bandog that will be suitable for PP but I can also go for a run with and bares the traits that I mentioned above. 

4LE,

I am not sure you already own a large dog so I will assume you do not.

From a owners point of view there are several thngs that you must consider before purchasing a larger than 100lb dog.              1).  Vet bills are more expensive for larger dogs.                 2).  they dont make medication for dogs >100lbs so you must buy medication for upto 100lbs, then for the rest of the size of you dog so you end up spending about 1.6% more on pet meds,                   3). big dogs bring in more dirt into your house, bigger dog, more surface area to get dirty,                 4). if you buy toys or bones for your dogs, big dogs destroy them quickly.                5).  if the dog sheds, there will be more hair (hence why i have never purchased a shepard).         6).   poorly bred large dogs have injuries that will required attention.        7).  what happens if that dog turns out to be a lap dog  (had a friend with a 130# bullmastiff,  awesome dog, was heavy and drooled A LOT)?        8).   poorly bred big dogs will not have the energy level or endurance your looking for.                   9).  hope you dont own a small car/truck/bed, a big dog might not fit in it (lol).       10)  if on the off chance your out a distance in the wilderness with no mechanical transportion and your large dog gets injured, are you going to be able to carry that dog out so it can get medical attention?

just a few things to think about regarding large breed ownership...

Paul

I have no problem with the extra expenses nor the extra clean up a larger dog requires. I'm also use to toys being destroyed, my APBTs have a tendency to destroy their toys with ease that my german shepherd takes weeks to get through lol. I also don't feel the need to worry with it being a lap dog or poorly bred because I plan on coming to Chimera Kennel or anyone he reccomends on the matter of a 100 lb + working dog :-)

Paul made very good sense in all the points mentioned. While some programs are breeding great big (125lbs+) dogs, many other guys are purely breeding for size. In LA, I see a lot of people that just want huge dogs and that's that. They have no interest in performance, health, space, maintenance, vet bills etc... they don't have interest because they do not think about it, or do not WANT to think about it. Then when the dog is 2 years old and they can't handle it, they dump it somewhere. I know because I rescued many dogs from the street in the past, including 2 huge Great Danes that had been dumped in front of my building. I think that just like Lee, Paul and others have said it, you're better off being at around 90lbs-110lbs maximum. A dog of such size can meet most of the tasks required of him/her, granted it comes from the right breeding program such as Lee's. Only my 2 cents:)

Yeah I understand where you guys are coming from and I respect the information you all have given. I've been looking for a larger dog who is working because I simply don't want a dog whose sole purpose in life is to take up sapce on the couch and be a dent in my wallet. I would like something who'll be working as hard as I do. From the pictures that Lee kindly posted the two dogs that are almost exactly what I've been looking for were Boss & Jackson. 

When it comes to larger ATHLETIC dogs, especially bandogs, lees got some awesome stock, just my opion, I myself tend to be drawn tword dogs over 110 and under 130.... ill sacrafice a little bit on athletic capabilities....

4LegEnthusiast at September 27, 2011 at 9:05 PM

I understand that. Do you produce dogs that carry those traits? 

Theres a dog that sounds a lot like what your talking about at midgard mastiffs, names psyche

Penngomifan,

Thanks for the kind words. It has been my experience that a dog in the 90-110# class can do everything a larger dog can do in terms of protection work.

I often find myself contemplating on various protection scenerios, and one of the most concerning to me is an economic collapse...where people become extreme looters and robbery takes an extreme climb.  Another crazy situation would be something like an EMP pulse or civil chaos. I can't help but believe in such a situation, alertness would become key. And should one have to travel much, I really think a 130# dog would be more of a henderance than an asset. I think the ideal dogs in terms of protection and all around service would be between 70-120#...with the ideal being 80-110#. I also think heavy bone would be a negative. I wouldn't want light bone either, as it is prone to injury. Balance is key...moderation. The only things that should be extreme in my opinion would include trainability, drive, and loyalty.

i realise this is an older thread, but i must ask. where is Jackson? i could not find him on your website.

when i imagine the ideal bandog structurally, he is the bandog i see. woluld really like to know more about him, even though it appears you no longer have him.

thanks,

sirius

Jackson was sold as a pup to a local friend. He stops by occationally. I saw Jackson just a week ago.

chimerakennels at April 17, 2012 at 6:02 PM

Jackson was sold as a pup to a local friend. He stops by occationally. I saw Jackson just a week ago.

how would you compare jackson and preacher-man

Lliving with Preacher-Man I know him better than I do Jackson. Preacher's temperament is great for me. He is a Dr. Jeckle / Mr. Hyde in the aspect that when he is with the family he is very soft and playful...goofly like. But, when working, he is very intense and has always been so.  I like that. He is as tough a dog as I have ever seen.

Also, living with Preacher and not Jackson allows me to decoy FOR Jackson, and requires others to decoy for Preacher. I know first hand that Jackson bites hard and shakes my shoulder like crazy...often making me want to slip the sleeve because I cur out. However, I also know that when others decoy for Preacher, they say the same thing...but I myself don't catch Preacher.

Jackson is proabably more like an over-grown APBT in appearance. Preacher shows more mastiff, but works intense like a game bred APBT would (but able to do protection work and with a more LOYAL temperament).

chimerakennels at April 18, 2012 at 12:20 PM

Lliving with Preacher-Man I know him better than I do Jackson. Preacher's temperament is great for me. He is a Dr. Jeckle / Mr. Hyde in the aspect that when he is with the family he is very soft and playful...goofly like. But, when working, he is very intense and has always been so.  I like that. He is as tough a dog as I have ever seen.

 

Also, living with Preacher and not Jackson allows me to decoy FOR Jackson, and requires others to decoy for Preacher. I know first hand that Jackson bites hard and shakes my shoulder like crazy...often making me want to slip the sleeve because I cur out. However, I also know that when others decoy for Preacher, they say the same thing...but I myself don't catch Preacher.

 

Jackson is proabably more like an over-grown APBT in appearance. Preacher shows more mastiff, but works intense like a game bred APBT would (but able to do protection work and with a more LOYAL temperament).

me again. you are absolutely right, Preacher is an awesome looking dog! and from the way you describe him, has an excellent temerament as well.

would you answer some questions about Preacher, and your dogs in general?

the following is an evaluation for the Boerboel breed. i actually like this system as it gives me a general idea of what a breeds temperament (in general terms). how would you grade your bandogs in these areas?

Energy level: 4-6

They vary of course, more than many breeds, but in general they are fairly laid back. They fire up for events, but have no problem lying around between time; not pacers by any means.

Intelligence: 5-7

Variety aside, but for the occasional retard ( sorry Sarah ) the breed should be considered smarter than all the main stream mastiffs who have already suffered the slings and arrows of popularity.

Biddability: 9

Cause that’s what a Boerboel should be, eager to please.

Independence: 1

Not ! They wait for you outside whatever door you last went in. They live for their people, four legged shadows; I find they can get a little annoying with such matters as licking one’s shoe lace tying fingers, a bit needy in the extreme. But I’ve got so many dogs no one ever gets enough love, might not be an issue otherwise.

Gravity: 10

Like secret service agents next to a U.S. President in a crowded mosque. I kid you not, mine stay at my side when we run, even if other dogs in attendance break off to chase wildlife through the woods, the boerboels can be called off, they stay by my side— instinctively.

Roam: 1

I’ve never owned a dog less inclined, for the boerboels that I’ve had, fence was not even necessary

Prey drive: 5

Moderate, nothing that their biddability won’t compensate for. I.E. they would just as soon kill your stock if your encouraged it, but they can refrain from doing so if they understand that to be the party line.

Dog aggression: 7-9

These are dominate animals, same sex adults will not settle rank peacefully. It’s a trait that’s largely understated in Boerboels, because it doesn’t sell dogs, but you need to be able to control your Boerboel cause it’s big enough to do a lot of damage to other people’s dogs.

Human aggression: 6-8

Always a touchy subject, but what a Boerboel is supposed to be is a man stopper, and you can’t be that without being willing to lay tooth on a man. The truth is, natural born man-stoppers are much harder to find in Boerboels ( as in most “protection” breeds ) than some of the marketing might have you believe. Evolutionarily speaking dogs that wouldn’t back down from a human tended to catch the sharp end of spears, swords, arrows, and more recently bullets. So it should come as no surprise that dogs with that sort of backbone are actually quite hard to find… but we’re always looking

thanks for any info you choose to share.

Mike

Energy level: 6-8

Intelligence: 6-8

Biddability: 7-9

(I disagree with the 9 given for a boerboel, and would rank them around 7 myself).

Independence: 2. American Sentinels Canines LOVE being with their families, and are closely attached...but they generally get use to their owner going to work without freaking out. I am going to skip the "Gravity" and "Roam" sections. I think only a fool would leave their dog outside unattended without a leash or fence unless they owned thousands of acres.  Too much liability for a protection dog. I refuse to sell protection/guard dogs to people that want a dog to be left outside and unsecured. Even when a dog is a "home body" as many of our dogs are...it only takes once for them to KILL someone. Be responsible...secure every guard dog appropriately.

Prey drive: 7-8

Dog aggression: 7-9

Human aggression: 6-8

I am going to add...

Fight drive: 7-10. A good American Sentinel shouldn't be quick to fight, but should they find themselves in such a situation...they should refuse to surrender.